NARDWUAR

The concept of double-named second-tier pop-metal bands was first introduced to me a few years back by local Vancouver, BC musician Mark Kleinz Kleiner, now of the rock 'n' roll band Jungle. His relentless championing of "underdog" combos such as Danger Danger and Enuff Z'Nuff has never failed to bring a smile to my face. Every time a metal band comes to town, Kleinz and I go out of our way to quiz them on Enuff Z'Nuff: Slik Toxic, Cinderella, Warrant (twice!), Skid Row, Danger Danger, Ratt, Iron Maiden, Cheap Trick, Gerri Miller of Metal Edge magazine have all had their thoughts aired on CiTR regarding Enuff Z'Nuff.

So it was natural that when an Enuff Z'Nuff date was announced in Vancouver, that Kleinz and I would corner the dirty dogs of rock 'n' roll themselves. (Chip Z'Nuff had once claimed to have "pissed" in Madonna - a rumour related to Kleinz by Kurt of the Age of Electric no less!) Their sparsely attended Vancouver gig did not disappoint. Donnie Vie quipped to the audience, "I can't believe thirty people are making this much noise!" We were in heaven. Enuff Z'Nuff even let us join them on their $1000 a day bus for the after-party where certain "unidentified" members of the Vancouver audience were spotted making out with drummer Ricky Parent. Kleinz got stoned while I took the pictures.

A few weeks after the gig, I got a thank you postcard from Chip Z'Nuff. Chip thank us? I couldn't believe it. He really was a good guy, cuz after eleven years in the college rawk biz, believe me, baby, the thank you's I've received have been few and far between. That made me smile. Kleinz, you sure know how to pick 'em!

Have a good brunch

Nardwuar the Human Serviette
CiTR Radio fM 101.9, Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada

My hair's too long
And you can't pronounce my name
My favourite songs
Everybody says are lame
I've just been rejected
By the "in" crowd
"In Crowd" - Enuff Z'Nuff '91

Rock 'n' roll is music for the outsider in all of us, and you won't find a more perfect outsider than Enuff Z'Nuff. Their debut album and accompanying videos made a huge splash at the end of the '80s, a volatile brew of Def Leppard production values, pop metal hooks, a dash of '60s retro, you know, neon oversize Hendrix shirts... a first impression that left a bitter aftertaste in the fickle public consciousness. I didn't discover E-ZN until 1993 when Arista gave the band a second lease on life (Strength, their sophomore ATCO effort, had flopped.) Animals With Human Intelligence shows three rockers standing in an alley looking like strippers on a smoke break. It might have appeared cheesy in 1986 but in the grunge-obsessed early '90s the album looked downright alien. I was intrigued...obviously, in some twisted way, this was a band of daring integrity, and, most importantly, utter stupidity. I found the album (used), took a chance, and was blown away.

When all you want
Are drugs and money
And nothing can come quick enuff
Everything in this world is funny
You've got to bear it all
Hang on and just been tough.
"Superstitious" - Animals With Human Intelligence, Enuff Z'Nuff, 1993

At the time Drew Masters wrote in Meat Magazine something to the effect of, "Yeah, maybe it's brilliant in places, but c'mon, guys, how can we take you seriously with a cover like this?"

Predictably, the album tanked and Arista dropped the band, but in 1998, Enuff Z'nuff is still around and Meat Magazine certainly isn't. Chip and Donnie, the group's creative artery, are a living testimonial to the Frank Zappa adage, "Be what you is." Theirs is an expression of the profanity, inanity, purity, and utter absurdity of life here on Planet Earth more righteously rocking than you will find anywhere.

So please excuse the gushing in the following interview. This was the culmination of many years pleading with Nardwuar to get Chip on the program and nothing could have prepared me for the thrill in realizing this dream. Did I mention that my band Jungle got to share a stage with E-ZN and open their show two nights later? After which we all convened aboard the infamous Enuff Z'Nuff tour bus for rocking and revelry into the week small hours of the morning. Heartfelt thanks to all the people who made this thrill of a lifetime possible: E-ZN (Chip, Donnie, Monaco, Ricky) + crew, of course Nardwuar, Siobhan at CiTR, my Jungle bandmates and all our friends who came down to Studebaker's and shared this special night with us.

God bless and keep the faith,

Mark Kleinz Kleiner

Nardwuar: Are you there, Chip?

Chip Z'Nuff: I am right here in Seattle, my friend.

Nardwuar: We are so excited to have you here live on the Nardwuar the Human Serviette show. Every metal interview we've ever done here live on the Nardwuar the Human Serviette show, we've always mentioned Enuff Z'Nuff, we were so worried we wouldn't get ahold of you, but your phoning here today has just made our day today, Chip. Thank you.

Chip Z'Nuff: Well thank you very much. We're very flattered to hear that you're going to accept us into your country. We're looking forward to a great performance.

Nardwuar: And, Chip, right now I would like to introduce to you to my co-host here today, Mark Kleiner. He's in a band called Jungle that are actually going to be backing you up. He's seen a few of your shows, but he's the one who turned me onto Enuff Z'Nuff. Mark, go ahead!

Kleinz: My heart's in my mouth. This is a real, real thrill, Chip.

Chip Z'Nuff: Well, Mark, it's a total pleasure to be on the radio with you guys. It's been such long time since we've played that area. I think the last time we played Vancouver was 1991. We were hanging out with Bob Rock there, actually. He was trying to drag us out to some strip clubs out there. We played a place called Club Soda so it's been a long time. I think we went through there maybe a couple of months after that on a tour with the Nelson guys playing a big stadium out there, one of those amusement parks where you have rock concerts at.

Kleinz: The PNE thing.

Chip Z'Nuff: Yeah, that was real nice-

Kleinz: So you played on the Strength tour.

Chip Z'Nuff: Yeah, the Strength tour. That's correct.

[Nardwuar plays snippet of Danger Danger's "Yeah You Want It" with the lyrics "You went from LA Guns to Enuff Z'Nuff and you partied with Poison on the back of their bus."]

Nardwuar: Wasn't that nice of Danger Danger to have those lyrics. What's going on there, Chip Z'Nuff?

Chip Z'Nuff: True story. I loaned my twelve-string bass to the guys in Danger Danger. I normally don't do that. I bought the twelve-string bass from Cheap Trick. I have a twelve-string bass that I play and it's an interesting instrument. A lot of guys like to play around with it. So I loaned it to the guys and I guess they paid homage to us by putting our name in one of their songs.

Nardwuar: Now, speaking of Cheap Trick there, Chip - every band we interview we always mention Enuff Z'Nuff, and we interviewed the band Cheap Trick, and as per usual, we asked about Enuff Z'Nuff to Tom Peterson.

Chip Z'Nuff: And what did Tommy say?

Nardwuar: Well, let's find out what he said. This is Tom Peterson talking about Enuff Z'Nuff:

Nardwuar: It's kind of sad almost because Enuff Z'Nuff -

Kleinz: Speaking of bad luck, but a band that stays together and has now been thrown off the Cheap Trick tribute album after they did "Everything Works If You Let It."

Tom Peterson: Who? How did you hear about that? Those guys were never on there. I think they wanted to record it, or did on their own, and then, well, you know. Nobody wanted them on there.

Nardwuar: Isn't it kind of sad though, Tom Peterson of Cheap Trick? Poor Enuff Z'nuff. They were keeping the Chicago spirit alive. Enuff Z'Nuff are amazing!

Tom Peterson: I thought it was Smashing Pumpkins that were keeping it alive. Enuff Z'Nuff are trying to kill it!

Kleinz: What!?

Nardwuar: You're not a big Enuff Znuff-

Kleinz: Chip Z'nuff plays a twelve-string Hamer bass. These guys love you guys!

Tom Peterson: Oh, that may be. But Jeffrey Dahmer loved us too, so I can't go by that.

Kleinz: Aargh. Oh.

Nardwuar: What is going on there, Chip?

Chip Z'Nuff: It sounds to me like a short cut to thinking.

Kleinz: No kidding!

Nardwuar: We were shocked when Tom - Have you talked to Tom Peterson recently at all?

Chip Z'Nuff: No, I haven't seen Tom Peterson recently. And by the way he's talking, he's not interesting in seeing me.

Kleinz: Hey, Chip, you know what happened a month later? It's instant karma: Red Ant folded. I wish those guys the best. I mean, I'm a big fan of both you guys' bands but-

Chip Z'Nuff: Well one thing that Tom should learn after all these years in the music business, you know, we do know that Tom, being in the great band Cheap Trick all those years, he was fired because of his "extracurricular activity," but he cleaned himself up and I've got to give him credit there. He came a long way but Cheap Trick, right now, and Enuff Z'Nuff... I've always paid homage to bands, I've always paid respect to Cheap Trick, but I think Cheap Trick has made enough great songs and great records, I don't think there's any need to critique those guys. They're an older band, I think, but we're new and upcoming guys-

Nardwuar: But you were like keeping the spirit of Cheap Trick alive all those years. Like all these bands, all these "alternative" bands, these Johnny Come Lately's, Enuff Z'Nuff, you were doing it all the time?

Kleinz: Carrying the message of love.

Nardwuar: And didn't you hear Mark trying to defend you there at all, Chip?

Chip Z'Nuff: Yes, I did.

Nardwuar: Chip Z'Nuff of Enuff Z'Nuff, when we played the theme song from Danger Danger, they kind of give props out to Enuff Z'Nuff, but didn't A Tribe Called Quest also give props out to Enuff Z'Nuff?

Chip Z'Nuff: A Tribe Called Quest. There's also a band called Wild Hearts over in Europe. They just covered one of our songs, "Time To Let You Go." Nelson's recorded two songs on their new album. And we just did a song for Jerry Maguire, of course. We're in the Jerry Maguire movie. "Bring Them All Home" from our album Animals With Human Intelligence.

Kleinz: What scene is that in?

Chip Z'Nuff: Um, I don't even know.

Nardwuar: What about Redd Kross? Did you ever meet those guys at all?

Chip Z'Nuff: I don't know the guys in Redd Kross but I like their band.

Nardwuar: Was it true that a long time ago, Chip Z'Nuff, that you guys were chosen by deaf kids to play at a deaf school because you guys looked so good?

Chip Z'Nuff: Uh, that's correct. We had a hit video on MTV; they were playing us a lot. We were totally blessed. We put our record out and for some reason MTV grabbed on to one of our songs and started playing it. We got asked by a college in Washington. It's a deaf college and six thousand kids came out to see Enuff Z'Nuff at two o'clock in the morning!

Nardwuar: Because Kleinz was just saying earlier that he couldn't believe a band like yourself was looking like you did in 1993. Like, you guys didn't sell out. Kleinz, do you remember when you discovered the band?

Kleinz: I discovered you guys when the Animals stuff came out. I was a bit late but I thought it was great that a band was looking this good in 1993 and was sticking to their guns, and they were saying in interviews exactly like it was: "Why should we change, you know? We are who we are. Fans know us as we are." And all the other bands, you know, were dropping all the colourful positive peace-vibe kind of spirit, and posing in all these dreary duds. But you guys were kind of barreling right on through!

Chip Z'Nuff: Well, I think that's the only thing we know what to do is write songs and tour, and we're very blessed to be in the position that we're in, to have seven albums that we've put out, and to have one in the can. Getting back to your Cheap Trick tribute album that you were talking about earlier, we were asked by the record company to do that song, and we called up the guys in Cheap Trick and asked them what they thought of it, and the head A&R guy who put it all together - his name is Frankie Larocca, and Peterson wouldn't know about this because he doesn't do business with the band - Frankie Larocca asked us if we wanted to do the song. So Epic paid us five thousand dollars to go in a studio and record one song. Five thousand dollars to us guys is a gold mine. We record songs for one hundred bucks. So we went into the studio and recorded "Everything Works If You Let It." I turned Rick Neilsen and Robin Zander on to it; they both wanted to come down and play guitar and sing on it. We said it was for a Cheap Trick tribute record so maybe we should keep the authenticity and just keep it ourselves on it. And then we found out later on that the people who were putting the record out thought maybe it would be in the best interests of the record company to just put "alternative" bands on there. I guess we didn't fit into the "alternative" mode. So we're going to take that song and it's going to be a bonus track on our newest album. It's called Paraphernalia. It will be out in March or April. And before that we'll have our live album out.

Nardwuar: Kleinz actually special-ordered Peach Fuzz for fifty-seven bucks! For Kleinz, it has been a special mission to make Enuff Z'Nuff great. We also interviewed Gerri Miller of Metal Edge magazine. Have you ever met Gerri Miller before?

Chip Z'Nuff: Yeah, I have met Gerri Miller.

Nardwuar: And this is what Gerri Miller had to say about Enuff Z'Nuff:

Kleinz: And what about Donnie Vie taking Crazy Glue and Crazy Glue-ing a woman's genitalia because she pissed in his bed?

Gerri Miller: Oh, that's gross. I don't have any stories like that. No, they don't tell me stuff like that.

Nardwuar: Are you into Enuff Z'Nuff?

Gerri Miller: Not that much. I mean, like their first record.

Kleinz: But Tweaked got slagged horribly in your magazine.

Gerri Miller: I wrote that review, by the way.

Kleinz: I know you did. I know you did. How do you feel about the album?

Gerri Miller: Mmm. So so.

Kleinz: Do you think they're a little Alice In Chains bandwagonesque on tracks like "Stoned" or do you think-

Gerri Miller: I don't know. I just didn't "get" the songs this time around. I like the produced bands-

Kleinz: Strength was beautiful though-

Gerri Miller: Strength was a good record, yeah.

Nardwuar: So what was going on there? Is it true about the Madonna and the genitalia rumour, Chip?

Chip Z'Nuff: I think that some of these stories get blown out of proportion. That's the best way to put it, to be totally honest. That sounds like a shortcut to thinking again. And it doesn't matter. As long as people talk about us, we're flattered. And Gerri Miller, actually, when the band had success at radio or on MTV, she was right there kissing our asses, and now that we're still struggling but putting all these records out, now she doesn't have time to listen to us because she's out trying to grab on to the next new big thing so her magazine can stay in print. And, uh, that's the only way I look at that, because we've never turned our back on any of these radio people or journalists across the country. We have always been totally great with them and very accessible and I think we've got a great name. It's unfortunate that people just go with the times and see what's fashionable and what's the flavour of the month because we have never went away. And our music, I don't think it's biodegradeable. I think you'll be hearing a lot of us whether you like it or not.

Nardwuar: And just between you and me, and 1.5 million listeners out there, what about genitalia and Crazy Glue. A little bit of that story for us???

Chip Z'Nuff: I think they both go together in some ways. My personal preference is I don't need Crazy Glue.

Nardwuar: What about the Private Parts soundtrack? Howard Stern is a big fan of you guys, I understand. How come you weren't on the Private Parts soundtrack?

Chip Z'Nuff: Well I was told - we tried to get on that, believe it or not. We thought it was a done deal, and we were told by Howard's people that the movie depicts Howard's life up to 1986, and he didn't even know Enuff Z'Nuff until 1990 so.... That's their excuse. I know why we're not on it. Look at the soundtrack. It's got Ozzy, Marilyn Manson, White Zombie, AC/DC: guaranteed success. For a soundtrack like that, why would you want to put anything new on it? When that movie was coming out, Howard was scared to death, because if that movie bombed, it would have hurt him bad too, so he was just grabbing onto anything that would guarantee credibility, and we, obviously in his mind, weren't.

Nardwuar: Has he been to any of your shows?

Chip Z'Nuff: Howard? He's in bed at nine o'clock at night. We don't go on stage until ten.

Nardwuar: Have you talked to him recently though?

Chip Z'Nuff: We are going on his show next week.

Nardwuar: Because how exactly how has Enuff Z'Nuff been shafted? You've taken a lot of hard knocks it seems, not getting on soundtracks. You've been keeping the spirit of metal alive, Chip, how have you not - what good luck has happened recently? Gerri Miller saying she is confused by your image, Tom Peterson saying, "You killed rock 'n' roll." How have you kept it real all these years?

Chip Z'Nuff: We've kept it real because that is exactly what we are: a real band that goes in the studio and sings and plays the same time, goes out in concerts with no tapes and no sequencers, sings and plays and writes the songs. We do it all. We don't need any machines or anybody to help us do that stuff. And we're just flattered to be in a position where people still like the stuff that we're writing. We have always worn our influences proudly on our sleeve whether our favourite stars want to slag us like Cheap Trick or not. We know we are the Real Those guys, they had their day in the sun, they were king of the hill. We were never king of the hill. We're four guys from the south side of Chicago who believe in miracles.

Kleinz: That's beautiful! I mean, there' almost tears in my eye. I must say, personally, you guys have changed my life. Your music touches people very deeply-

Nardwuar: And it has really rubbed up on me here as well! Because in every interview with every band we do, we always mention Enuff Z'Nuff! And here's us mentioning Enuff Z'Nuff to Danger Danger:

Nardwuar: Did you ever, like, when you were, like, partying with Enuff Z'Nuff at all, you must have, partake in any orgies with them? Like, you're rolling around, Doctor Ravel of Danger Danger, and suddenly you clasp on to Chip Z'Nuff's rod?

DOCTOR RAVEL: Well, actually we never hung out with Enuff Z'Nuff but we did hang out with other bands.

Nardwuar: But you never had any experiences like that? Like, "Oh my God! What am I doing with this-"

DOCTOR RAVEL: Not with Enuff Z'Nuff. They would always, they're great guys and I love their records and I love them to death, but they're a little bit strange with that. They don't like to share.

Kleinz: They don't. They just smoke... pot, right?

Nardwuar: What's the story behind that, Chip? You don't like to share with Danger Danger?

Chip Z'Nuff: It sounds to me like they're jealous.

Kleinz: No doubt. I think they tried to ape you on their second album. What was that song they did, right before the rap. It was kind of Beatlesesque but it was obvious they were ripping off you guys. You know the one I mean, the ballad-

Chip Z'Nuff: There are so many bands out there, either covering our stuff or been influenced by our music, and wearing it probably on our sleeves that, I mean, there are too many to think of. I don't have time to do that. There are so many bands out there, I am just totally grateful that they want to play our songs and cover us. If they want to rip us off, that's fine too. We're not mad about that.

Nardwuar: And, speaking of that, Chip Z'Nuff, Kleinz is so into you guys, Chip, that we even make up fake rumours about you guys. This is a clip of us talking to Eric of Cinderella about Enuff Z'Nuff:

Nardwuar: There was an ad over the summer in one of the heavy metal trade papers that you guys were possibly going to be playing an "unplugged" session with Tangier, Enuff Z'Nuff and Cinderella all together

Eric: Well, I never heard that.

Kleinz: This was in July.

Nardwuar: Yeah, it was a Cinderella, Tangier, Enuff Z'Nuff gig.

Eric: Uh, that was a rumour.

Kleinz: That was just a rumour?

Eric: Yeah, because Tangier is over. They've been split up for a couple of years. I'm best friends with Doug Gordon and Mike, you know, and they are like just, playing golf. Yeah, and Enuff Z'Nuff, I think I met those guys once but-

Nardwuar: Enuff Z'Nuff apparently cover one of your songs, "Once Around The Ride."

Eric: No way!

Nardwuar: Yeah, they do. Do you think you guys are probably going to return the favour and maybe cover one of their songs?

Eric: Well, to be quite honest, I don't know any Enuff Z'Nuff songs. I don't!

Nardwuar: Well, there you have it. Eric of Cinderella on Enuff Z'Nuff. What do you think of that, Chip Z'Nuff?

Chip Z'Nuff: I think Eric is a liar. If you listen to one of their songs - I think it's on their second album - on "Gypsy Rose" they're ripping off "New Thing." And the reason I even say that is when we were in the studio recording our first album, they were in there at Alpine Valley doing a live concert and the guys in the band came over and they heard our stuff in the studio - they came to check out the studio - and then they heard our music, they were blown away, and they said, "Hey, can we have a copy of them songs to listen to on the bus even though you guys don't have a record deal yet?" We said, "Sure, buddy." We didn't know any better. We gave them a tape, and a year and a half later they came out with "Gypsy Rose." It has the exact same riff as "New Thing." So, Cinderella, they've sold a lot of records. They've done really well. God bless them guys. We whip their asses any time we want to get on stage with those guys. We sing and play. They've got to have a guy backstage with a little keyboard doing the harmonies because they can't do it themselves. They should not sling mud if they live in a glass house.

Nardwuar: Thank you so much for phoning in, Chip Z'Nuff of Enuff Z'Nuff. It is really exciting to have you on the show today. Like I said, every interview we do, we always mention Enuff Z'Nuff. And, really, it is due to one person in Vancouver, right here. And if I may just pause here, Mark Kleiner, you really broke Enuff Z'Nuff in this town.

Kleinz: It was nothing.

Chip Z'Nuff: Mark, I want to thank you and I want to thank all your listeners. You guys are great out there. We're looking to playing for all you Canucks. It's going to be a great show. Bring out your peace signs and paisleys. It's going to be a mini indoor Woodstock without the mud when we get out there.

Kleinz: Hey, Chip, I have one last question. I have had ten people asking me this question all week.

Chip Z'Nuff: Okay, Mark.

Kleinz: Can you play "Wheels"?

Chip Z'Nuff: Yeah, it will be in the set.

Kleinz: Oh, yeah!

Nardwuar: Thanks very much, Chip Z'Nuff of Enuff Z'Nuff. Why should people care about Enuff Z'Nuff?

Chip Z'Nuff: Well, first of all, because we're very respectful to your wonderful country. We are thankful and grateful that you are letting us come in and play a concert in your town. It's a great rock 'n' roll audience out there. We haven't been out there in four or five years. And you've got the best hockey teams I can think of.

Nardwuar: All right. Well, keep on rocking in the free world, and... doot doola doot doo....

Chip Z'Nuff: Doot doo.